long delay before recognition
Submitted by Voice_Commander on Thu, 05/27/2010 - 13:01.
I've recently switched from using an Andrea USB sound pod to a Buddy 6G sound pod (still using ME3)
I created a new user using the same vocabulary, I also tried creating a new user and just exporting/importing custom words.
In both cases I am frequently getting a long delay before recognition. It will just sit with the ??? going for over ten seconds. I am running a core i7, and had no issues with this while I was using the Andrea USB. My recognition seems to be pretty good, but these long delays are extremely frustrating. If I press the + key to turn off the microphone it will then usually recognize the word.
Any ideas?
Derek

long delay
I have this with my Andrea USB (181-VM) microphone quite often. Vista, NatSpeak 10.1. Cannot get a clue what is happening.
Quintijn
USB is a serial bus. So data
USB is a serial bus. So data is sequentially read from that bus. Other traffic on the bus can influence speed.
That said, I'd try switching back to the Andrea to see if that makes a difference. Otherwise, I'd see how many other devices are using USB at the same time and try lowering it to see if that helps any.
admin wrote: USB is a serial
USB is a serial bus. So data is sequentially read from that bus. Other traffic on the bus can influence speed.
That said, I'd try switching back to the Andrea to see if that makes a difference. Otherwise, I'd see how many other devices are using USB at the same time and try lowering it to see if that helps any.
Just to add to this good advice, try using a different USB ports. If using a desktop computer, try using a rear USB port.
--
Marty Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
http://www.emicrophones.com
I'm using the same port I was using for the Andrea usb
I"m using the same port I was using for the Andrea usb (it is a rear port), so I'm doubting that is the issue. I'm only getting the delay with the Buddy 6G - I didn't notice this issue with the Andrea USB. I'll look into it more though.
Derek Morin
Does this happen
Does this happen particularly after doing corrections, and even more obviously after replacing existing text by selecting and dictating over? - If so, for me, it's quite obviously nothing to do with some sort of "house keeping utility" taking over your computer, and I have brought this up on numerous occasions in the KnowBrainer forum and elsewhere, and there are many others reporting the same issue, but more likey a certain type of behavior since version 10 when there is a problem with updating the speech buffer.
Rüdiger
Excellent point Rüdiger and
Excellent point Rüdiger and we had forgotten about that issue.
Lunis Orcutt - Founder of www.KnowBrainer.com/PubForum
I'll have to be on the lookout for that...
I came home today after work, and I'm not seeing the problem. I was seeing it very regularly before.
I'll try to remember if it happens after replacing existing text by dictating over.
It is things like this that drive me crazy, I was getting it all the time last night, but today when I want to troubleshoot it... it vanishes.
Derek
Voice_Commander wrote:I
I came home today after work, and I'm not seeing the problem. I was seeing it very regularly before.
I'll try to remember if it happens after replacing existing text by dictating over.
It is things like this that drive me crazy, I was getting it all the time last night, but today when I want to troubleshoot it... it vanishes.
Derek
In my experience, there is no way you could force this behavior to show up. I use Dragon 10.1 Pro on Windows XP all day long in the office, and Windows 7 64-bit at home. I see it coming on both systems, but on a very irregular basis. It may not happen for several days, but it can also come up twice within half an hour or less, but rather rarely. It also doesn't make a differnce whether you are dictating into DragonPad, MS Word, or Outlook. The only common denominator, however, and that's for sure, is that there is always doing corrections/editing being involved.
Since the behavior, in my experience, is absolutely identical on both my systems, quite obviously it isn't related to any particular install or software configuration. I even use two different installations of Dragon on both machines (German/Dutch).
Some time ago, we have been discussing this issue on a larger scale in the German Dragon forum that I host (see http://translate.google.de/translate?js=y&prev=_t&... for an automated Google translaton if you like).
Judging from this, what does seem to make a difference is the amount of RAM that people are using. In my case, this is 4 GB on the Windows 7 machine, and just 2 GB on the XP machine, which otherwise is supposed to be quite enough and not causing any major issues. Those who have 8 GB, however, didn't report this happening, and everyone involved in that discussion were professional heavy users of Dragon.
Rüdiger
rwilke wrote: Does this
Does this happen particularly after doing corrections, and even more obviously after replacing existing text by selecting and dictating over? - If so, for me, it's quite obviously nothing to do with some sort of "house keeping utility" taking over your computer, and I have brought this up on numerous occasions in the KnowBrainer forum and elsewhere, and there are many others reporting the same issue, but more likey a certain type of behavior since version 10 when there is a problem with updating the speech buffer.
Rüdiger
I wonder if it might be that DNS is doing it's own form of housekeeping in it's editing buffer after a certain amount of editing has been done?
This isn't a USB card issue
The USB card has nothing to do with the problem and both of these sound cards should work equally well. Skip (admin) made an excellent recommendation to switch USB ports but if this is a desktop computer, you not only should switch to a rear USB port (Marty's recommendation) but additionally switch to one of the 2 USB ports that are closest to the ethernet jack. If this is a notebook computer, simply switching ports may help but you may have another issue such as another application taking precedence over NaturallySpeaking. A number of housekeeping utilities can cause problems with NaturallySpeaking and if you have some form of optimizing, spyware utility etc. running in the background, you might consider using the process of elimination to disengage each one until you locate the culprit.
Lunis Orcutt - NaturallySpeaking Gold Certified BBB Accredited Speech Recognition/Microphone Solutions Provider & Founder of www.KnowBrainer.com/PubForum
With any version, I have
With any version, I have always had very long (five or more second) delays before Dragon NaturallySpeaking recognizes a command in my (250 KB) notes file that is opened with WordPad. The delay depends on the file size. An easy and completely satisfactory workaround for my problem here is to use a different program to open and edit the file.
The delay I experience has
The delay I experience has nothing to do with long files loading and also not with the first recognition of a session. Simply regular or occasional long delays. Other USB ports (back of computer and close to the ethernet port) did not give an improvement. It remains a strange problem.
Maybe I have to switch off other programs and see what happens. But I think I have a fairly clean system, Vista, lots of memory, Pentium, ...
Quintijn
Quintijn wrote: The delay I
The delay I experience has nothing to do with long files loading... Simply regular or occasional long delays.
Not with a 500 kB WordPad? Anyway... I have had a delay maybe like yours and the original poster, the one where the recognition box pauses for a few seconds, but that has not happened for a long time. NaturallySpeaking version 10 runs smoothly here, maybe because DNS sometimes eats over 500 MB of RAM here.
Windows XP SP3
Q9550 quad core CPU
Gigabyte mainboard
4 GB of RAM
SSD main drive with a conventional backup drive
USB microphone
Mark Bender aka John Doe aka
I have had a delay maybe like yours and the original poster, the one where the recognition box pauses for a few seconds, but that has not happened for a long time.
USB microphone
There are USB microphones and there are USB microphones. Some USB are manufactured specifically for Speech Recognition. By this I mean the response range is close to the frequency range of the human voice.
USB for musical applications or Gamer USB microphones which exceed the frequency range can cause delays. Also some USB ports (often front USB ports) are under powered or unshielded and can pickup electronic noise.
See USB sound pods designed for Speech Recognition at:
http://www.emicrophones.com/c-5-usb-devices.aspx
--
Marty Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
I was hitting the problem again
It kept happening again and again and again.I kept restarting NaturallySpeaking and it still kept on happening. I'm talking about pauses that lasted for over a minute. I eventually restarted the computer and now things seem to be working reasonably again. Or so I thought... it's happening again as I am dictating this post. It's odd... if I hit the + key, it seems to "force" recognition immediately and it generally is recognizing the right word or command. I'm going to try switching the USB port now... sigh...
Derek Morin
It's been working for a good 10 minutes now
I switched the USB port, and now it has been working for about 10 or 15 minutes. That's not a whole lot to go on, but it is a noticeable improvement over how terribly things have been going. I'm sure that if I have more problems I'll be on here complaining again.
Derek Morin
Voice_Commander wrote: I
I switched the USB port, and now it has been working for about 10 or 15 minutes. That's not a whole lot to go on, but it is a noticeable improvement over how terribly things have been going. I'm sure that if I have more problems I'll be on here complaining again.
Derek Morin
We are pleased to hear our suggestion on USB ports seems to have helped. We did not elaborate, but USB ports in the front of the computer are often connected to the rear controller by unshielded cables. Also, extra USB ports in the rear of a desktop computer can suffer as well if the voltage is not the same as the ports in the main controller. Notebook computers in general do not seem to have a problem but occasionally we troubleshoot one where switching USB ports makes the difference.
--
Marty Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
http://www.emicrophones.com
kept hitting the problem again
Seems to only happen when I use the Buddy G soundpod (instead of Andrea USB). I'm just going to switch back to the Andrea. It didn't always happen with the Buddy, but VERY frequently. I always used rear ports, switching to the one closer to the network card seemed to work for a little bit, but the problem came back. So I'll stick with the Andrea USB sound pod for now...
Derek
All USB Soundcards Are Equal
If it's any consolation, from a purely speech recognition accuracy point of view, pretty much all USB soundcard's are equal (including the Buddys and Andreas) because they all include the same DSP chip.
Lunis - NaturallySpeaking Gold Certified BBB Accredited Speech Recognition/Microphone Solutions Provider & Founder of www.TheMicrophoneStore.com
Voice_Commander wrote: Seems
Seems to only happen when I use the Buddy G soundpod (instead of Andrea USB). I'm just going to switch back to the Andrea. It didn't always happen with the Buddy, but VERY frequently. I always used rear ports, switching to the one closer to the network card seemed to work for a little bit, but the problem came back. So I'll stick with the Andrea USB sound pod for now...
Is this a Buddy USB 6G? If so and it is less than a year old, you can get it replaced. Here is the information:
Buddy Microphones - InSync Software - (1 year warranty)
RMA request from Laura: barriosl@insyncspeech.com
--
Marty Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
http://www.emicrophones.com
Voice_Commander wrote:Seems
Seems to only happen when I use the Buddy G soundpod (instead of Andrea USB). I'm just going to switch back to the Andrea. It didn't always happen with the Buddy, but VERY frequently. I always used rear ports, switching to the one closer to the network card seemed to work for a little bit, but the problem came back. So I'll stick with the Andrea USB sound pod for now...
Derek
Derek,
Unfortunately, this is a tough nut to crack. Because the Buddy USB 6G and both of the Andrea sound pods use exactly the same DSP chip, as well as the exact same hardcoded digital signal processing software (software in ROM), there should theoretically be absolutely no difference between the performance of either, and I doubt seriously that that is at issue. The only difference that I've ever detected is that the Andrea USB pods tend to run hotter (i.e., have a higher gain output). Even so, the impact of this is generally in terms of the microphone volume adjustment and the quality check ratio in the Audio Setup Wizard, not in terms of performance, accuracy, or latency.
Nevertheless, something is interfering with the recognition process. It's been a long time since I use the Sennheiser ME-3. I did have a problem with one of the Buddy USB SoundPod's, but I don't recall whether or not it was with the Buddy USB 5G or the Buddy USB 6G. I think it was the former. Regardless, it may just be that the Sennheiser ME-3 that you are using simply works better with the Andrea than it does with the Buddy USB 6G. However, I don't think that's the case. I think something else is going on, which could be hardware or DNS, or Windows. Since you've already tested using the approaches that I would recommend, you might want to consider Lunis' recommendation and return your Buddy USB 6G and see if you can get a replacement. It might just be the unit itself, although that is rare as well. There are some microphones, other than the Sennheiser ME-3, that don't work as well with the Buddy USB 6G as they do with the Andrea PureAudio or half duplex. For example, the Olympus ME 31 does not like the Buddy USB 6G. I have to use the Buddy USB 5G with that microphone. However, my Samson Airline 77 wireless microphone, Sennheiser MD431 II, and the Samson Q7 all seem to work fine with the Buddy USB 6G, but they do not all work well with a buddy USB 5G, and some don't work at all with that USB sound pod.
Go figure!!!
Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
"About the time we can make the ends meet, somebody moves the ends." Herbert Hoover
Knowledge is key
you might want to consider Lunis' recommendation and return your Buddy USB 6G and see if you can get a replacement.
Let's give credit where credit is due. That was my recommendation.
There are some microphones, other than the Sennheiser ME-3, that don't work as well with the Buddy USB 6G as they do with the Andrea PureAudio or half duplex. For example, the Olympus ME 31 does not like the Buddy USB 6G. I have to use the Buddy USB 5G with that microphone.
The only difference between the Buddy 5G (5th Generation) and the Buddy 6G is the pin out wiring was changed to work with the ME3 manufactured for speech recognition exclusively for eMicrophones by Sennheiser. The manufacturer of the Buddy USB saw the importance of his USB pods working with the most popular best speech recognition microphone headset and worked with eMicrophones to change the wiring. This is why the Buddy 6G does not work with the likes of the Olympus ME31.
--
Marty Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
http://www.emicrophones.com
Marty, My apologies. I
Marty,
My apologies. I didn't bother to go back through the threads before posting who said what.
In addition, thanks for the additional explanation on the difference between the Buddy USB 5G and the Buddy USB 6G. However, interestingly enough, the Olympus ME 31 works fine with either the Andrea half duplex or the Andrea PureAudio, as do virtually all the microphones that I have.
Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower® Ultimate
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila." -- Mitch Ratliffe
Chuck Runquist wrote: In
In addition, thanks for the additional explanation on the difference between the Buddy USB 5G and the Buddy USB 6G. However, interestingly enough, the Olympus ME 31 works fine with either the Andrea half duplex or the Andrea PureAudio, as do virtually all the microphones that I have.
I've been working with another manufacturer recently on a USB pod issue. It turns out it is not only the pin out to be concerned about but the use of capacitors. It is my guess that Andrea has this nailed down. Like you, I've found Andrea pods work with the microphones we recommend for speech recognition.
--
Marty Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.
http://www.emicrophones.com
Interesting... I actually
Interesting... I actually got my ME-3 microphone from eMicrophones, but the Buddy USB 6G from a place here in Canada (shipping+duties etc can be a !@#). So I should be ok, but I'm not... so perhaps the return of the 6G is in order. I'm also thinking about getting the Samson Airline, so I might wait to see if that works with the pod before returning it. I like the idea of not being plugged in to my computer.
Derek Morin
Derek, I've used my Samson
Derek,
I've used my Samson Airline 77 wireless microphone with both Andrea USB pod and my Buddy USB 6G. Should work fine with the Buddy.
Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower® Ultimate
"Most of the things worth doing in the world have been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
The Airline 77 Should Work Great with the Buddy 6G
As a test, we dictated this message with the $300 Samson Airline 77 ~ https://www.knowbrainer.com/storefront/index.cfm?f... wireless microphone (w/KB PLUS PACK) and the Buddy USB 6G. As you can see, it worked perfectly.
Lunis - NaturallySpeaking Gold Certified BBB Accredited Speech Recognition/Microphone Solutions Provider & Founder of TheMicrophoneStore.com
Where is your accuracy
Where is your accuracy slider?
I find the farther it is to the right, Accuracy, the longer Dragon "thinks" and the longer it may take for Dragon to process, regardless of the machine. I'm a heavy DNS user and I keep the slider all the way to Speed. It doesn't seem to affect my recognition and the drop down is much faster.
It has also been my experience that new users in general are slower to drop. Processing some documents should help speed things up.
It Depends on the Speed of Your Processor
We can verify the accuracy is definitely better with the slider all the way to the right but this isn't a viable option for slower computers. We're using an Intel i7 quad core 965 processor with 12 Gb of RAM and Windows 7 64-bit which means we can't detect any speed difference with the slider set to the far right or to the far left but we can appreciate a slight increase in accuracy.
Lunis Orcutt - NaturallySpeaking Gold Certified BBB Accredited Speech Recognition/Microphone Solutions Provider & Founder of www.KnowBrainer.com/PubForum
VanDessa wrote:Where is
Where is your accuracy slider?
I find the farther it is to the right, Accuracy, the longer Dragon "thinks" and the longer it may take for Dragon to process, regardless of the machine. I'm a heavy DNS user and I keep the slider all the way to Speed. It doesn't seem to affect my recognition and the drop down is much faster.
It has also been my experience that new users in general are slower to drop. Processing some documents should help speed things up.
I concur with Lunis. In fact, I have very little delay from dictation to display of text even on my Gateway laptop Core2™ Duo, 2 GHz with only 2 GB of RAM (T7200) running DNS 10.1 Medical. On that system the delay is only about 1 second even when dictating 10 or 12 word phrases without pausing.
The only reasons for an increase in latency (delay of the display of text) with the Speed vs. Accuracy slider all the way to the right is a bloated user profile that has not been optimized, leaving DNS active for 6 or 8 hours without closing and reopening your user profile, poor quality microphone/soundcard combinations that made it difficult for DNS to complete the recognition process, or having a severely fragmented hard drive or bloated registry that hasn't been optimized for a long period of time. You can improve performance (decrease latency) to a certain extent by hiding the results box.
If you keep the Speed vs. Accuracy slider all the way to the left (speed) you lose the advantage of the quadgram model. Setting the Speed vs. Accuracy below 50% means that you're losing the benefits of the more accurate N-gram models. If you think you're getting just as good accuracy, your deceiving yourself.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS
If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee - that will do them in. - Bradley's Bromide
I actually had the slider in the middle.
I'm running a Core i7 with 6GB RAM. The issue seemed to be the Buddy 6G pod, it was working better (and is working better) with the Andrea USB sound pod. So I'm just going to stick with that. Also I'm talking about delays of over a minute sometimes. Usually I just ended up hitting the + key to turn off the microphone after about 10s as this seemed to force recognition (usually with it recognizing what I said).
Derek Morin