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DNS 10 where?
Hi, I'm new to this forum.
last time I tried DNS was back around version 3, not a good experience.
I've been using ViaVoice with mixed results for a while but since it appears that product is dead-ended I thought I would try the new DNS 10.
So where, other than mail-order, is it actually available? Not at Frys today, their store has a big push and special discounts on DNS 9, and nary a mention that it is down-rev and a foolish purchase at this time since no free upgrade is offered.
And does DNS still not support multi-threading for dual/quad processors or more than 3GByte RAM?
It's a frustration that a CPU-intensive software will not use any of the high performance features of modern PCs nor does it properly support open-source software. (I use XP having removed the Vista bloatware from my machines.)
I'm not ready to give up on ViaVoice yet, but I would definitely like something better. Does anyone know of anything better (other than SpeechMagic for medics which I'm not)?
Accuracy percent
Wait, that's not how percentages work. At 99% accuracy you have 10 errors per 1000 words. A 20% improvement means that you have 2/10 better performance, so you have only 8 errors per 1000 words. That translates to 99.2% accuracy.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Dan
Dan, Yeah, but, if you only
Dan,
Yeah, but, if you only say 100 words at 99% accuracy then a 20% improvement means that you have only 0.8 errors, which basically means that you have to say more than you need to see any benefit!
In other words, I think he was joking, although I had to read it three times to realize that 
Bruce
PS: I just realized that its like my house Sirius radio: You got 10-20 times as many channels, but what does it matter if you only receive a signal 1/10th to 1/20th of the time its turned on?
HBlack wrote: Hi, I'm new
Hi, I'm new to this forum. ...
I thought I would try the new DNS 10.
So where, other than mail-order, is it actually available?
Well, a week later and the retailers around here (Silicon Valley) are still pushing DNS 9 and saying if you buy DNS 9 today there is a free upgrade to 10 (there isn't). They have no date for DNS 10 inventory.
Meanwhile, I took delivery of a cheap ($450) new PC, Intel E2200 (Allendale) CPU. So before blowing away Vista (home premium 64bit) I tried out Vista speech recognition. I have to say I was surprised how well it works. Not as good as ViaVoice on XP but darned close considering only 20 minute's training. The major disadvantage seems to be that it is not well integrated with Firefox and Thunderbird.
Back to ViaVoice on XP then, it likes the 2.2GHz core 2 dual CPU (probably using only one core) even if XP will only see 3GB of the 8GB memory
As ever, hardware speed is losing the race against software sloth. Good job I can't afford a state of the art PC.
HBlack wrote: Not as good
Not as good as ViaVoice on XP ....
Back to ViaVoice on XP then, it likes the 2.2GHz core 2 dual CPU (probably using only one core) even if XP will only see 3GB of the 8GB memory
Same here with 2Ghz. VV loves it. 2Gb. memory is more than adequate. And it's much faster than DNS 9.5.
I'll wait for DNS 10 to settle down and be patched, or become 11 before adding it to my SR arsenal 
Quentin

Ver. 10 Is Here
What seems most likely to us is that your
over-the-counter retailers are trying to unload their Ver. 9 software because
it cannot be returned. However, Nuance certified licensed vendors are permitted
to return out-of-date software and when you purchase any speech recognition
peripherals from a Nuance partner you typically gain an extra layer of Nuance
certified Technical Support. We additionally kick that up a notch by including our
new Ver. 10 upgrade user guide (for upgrading from previous versions of DNS)
and we have Ver. 10 available at HERE
PS: It's also not a bad idea to purchase from the vendors who support you on
the various speech recognition forums.
Lunis
Orcutt - Developer of KnowBrainer
&
Host of the
http://www.TheMicrophoneStore.com
A Nuance Gold Certified Endorsed Dragon
NaturallySpeaking Partner/Trainer
ALWAYS Ask If Your Speech Recognition Partner Is
Nuance Certified


DNS 3... Late 1998 - hardly
DNS 3... Late 1998 - hardly comparable to the product now in front of us - like every other bit of software on a PC - remember Windows 98 - yurk, although kept Win 95 users happy till 2001 and the advent of what now seems to be the universally acclaimed Windows XP, (strange that...).
DNS 10 has literally come out in the last few days - give it a week or two to get into distribution!
The 3 GByte limitation is a 32 bit windows limitation not Dragons...
Ok - DNS should have a 64 bit version, and also multi processor capabilities - but frankly there are not many bits of software that do make good use of multi processors - just google "multi core dead end".
There are a number of very intelligent people out there who still haven't worked out how to "turn an inherently serial problem into an efficient parallel algorithm."
Why should Dragon support open-source? Open-source doesn't support open-source!! Usually answers to your issues on open-source are answered by other users, very rarely the developers!
Oh and the eternal Vista/XP argument - get over it!!! Google the "Mojave experiment"....
Vista has a few quirks, (and XP doesn't?), but when you get used to it - it's not as bad an OS as the bandwagon purports...
By the way none of this is personal to the OP - just I see a lot of commonly stated rhetoric.
Let the flaming begin!
dragonuser wrote: ... Oh
... Oh and the eternal Vista/XP argument - get over it!!! Google the "Mojave experiment"....
Let the flaming begin!
Great marketing guys. The message is that I am stupid to think Vista is bloatware. Vista does not have a problem, it the customers who have a problem.
Let me offer a suggestion to Microsoft - belittling your customers is not a good idea. It will create customers who will go out of their way to buy someone else's products.
To me Vista is full of cutesy features none of which I am interested in. But which I strongly suspect hog my disk space, and worse take my CPU cycles to do things I don't care two hoots in Hades about. And Microsoft offers no help in the tedious process of disabling the bloat.
Windows XP needs 300MHz CPU, 128MB RAM, 1.5GB Disk
Vista needs 1GHz CPU, 1GB RAM, 15 GB Disk.
By those measures XP is far and away superior when run on a hardware platform shipped with Vista.
By the way, I see Nuance claims "DNS 10 is faster".
Does that mean it will run as well as DNS 9 when on a slower CPU?
I thought not. In the race between faster hardware and slower software the hardware seems to be losing.
[quote=HBlackLet me offer a
Let me offer a suggestion to Microsoft - belittling your customers is not a good idea.
I don't work for Microsoft....!
An Articulate and reasoned and somewhat civil discussion
Well gentlemen - I am making an assumption you are all male based on your ID's and tone - this has to be one of the most articulate and well spoken flame wars I have witnessed in my many - too many - years of attendance on the internet. I did chuckle at your method of composition and was duly impressed. Well done. It made my evening.
I had not known what a Potemkin Village was and it is now going to see some regular use in my own writings when the opportunity arises. Thank you Bruce.
Mike Murphy
What the ?
A great example of how many words can you actually you use without ACTUALLY saying anything!
Mike, Thank you. Regulars
Mike,
Thank you. Regulars of this forum will tell you that I had to burn off a lot of gas before I reached my current state
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: Mike, Thank
Mike,
Thank you. Regulars of this forum will tell you that I had to burn off a lot of gas before I reached my current state
Bruce
With the current price of gas, it is unlikely you'll be burning much more
Quentin
crivon1 wrote: BruceCyr
Mike,
Thank you. Regulars of this forum will tell you that I had to burn off a lot of gas before I reached my current state
Bruce
With the current price of gas, it is unlikely you'll be burning much more
Quentin
Maybe he should be held in reserve to help keep the price of gas down?
admin wrote: crivon1
Mike,
Thank you. Regulars of this forum will tell you that I had to burn off a lot of gas before I reached my current state
Bruce
With the current price of gas, it is unlikely you'll be burning much more
Quentin
Maybe he should be held in reserve to help keep the price of gas down? :D
That depends on the type of gas and where it comes from
Quentin
crivon1 wrote: admin
Mike,
Thank you. Regulars of this forum will tell you that I had to burn off a lot of gas before I reached my current state
Bruce
With the current price of gas, it is unlikely you'll be burning much more
Quentin
Maybe he should be held in reserve to help keep the price of gas down? :D
That depends on the type of gas and where it comes from
Quentin
I'm pretty sure he would be a high-grade premium (95+ octane) gas supplier.
admin wrote: crivon1
Mike,
Thank you. Regulars of this forum will tell you that I had to burn off a lot of gas before I reached my current state
Bruce
With the current price of gas, it is unlikely you'll be burning much more
Quentin
Maybe he should be held in reserve to help keep the price of gas down? :D
That depends on the type of gas and where it comes from
Quentin
I'm pretty sure he would be a high-grade premium (95+ octane) gas supplier.
I wasn't talking about petrol.
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote:
Mike,
Thank you. Regulars of this forum will tell you that I had to burn off a lot of gas before I reached my current state
Bruce
With the current price of gas, it is unlikely you'll be burning much more
Quentin
Maybe he should be held in reserve to help keep the price of gas down? :D
That depends on the type of gas and where it comes from
Quentin
I'm pretty sure he would be a high-grade premium (95+ octane) gas supplier.
I wasn't talking about petrol.
Bruce
That's what I thought
Quentin
dragonuser wrote: Oh and
Oh and the eternal Vista/XP argument - get over it!!! Google the "Mojave experiment"....
Vista has a few quirks, (and XP doesn't?), but when you get used to it - it's not as bad an OS as the bandwagon purports...
By the way none of this is personal to the OP - just I see a lot of commonly stated rhetoric.
Let the flaming begin!
Oh Goodie! An invitation to flame!
Actually, I agree with many of your points, although I wonder whether on second thought you might not come to rue the tone
But (and the flame now begins) Vista vs. XP is scarcely an "eternal" issue -- shoot, its barely annual. The google target you posit essentially leads you to a series of tedious steps to turn Vista back into XP -- i.e., it shows that Vista is nothing more than a Potemkin village. Which begs the question, who benefits from Vista -- basically M$' cash flow, which torques the nether parts considering M$ probably has the largest cash balance of any corporation in the world yet doesn't seem to know how to spend it wisely nor invest it profitably -- but so what, its their money and millions of damn fools are perfectly happy throwing their easily earned bucks at them, so good on them I say! Its the American way to screw the little guy! (If only I could figure out how to tap it that stream
M$ is a legitimate target of derision for foot-dragging on the multi-threading issue according to the gossip I've read -- basically Intel had to drag them into that option, but of course that's only because Intel discovered it couldn't keep torquing the single thread taproot and had to branch out, as it were.
And I don't think there's a creditable reason why we haven't long since obviated the 4GB silicon ceiling except for M$' resistance. It is a prime reason why we need all the memory headroom we can get, so I say flip them a bird or two on this issue and feel that for once you're completely justified in the eyes of the gods and all mankind!
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: dragonuser
Let the flaming begin!
Oh Goodie! An invitation to flame!
Don't ya'll get all set afire and make me have to use my flameproof suit and huge online fire extingishers ta fix this all up now...
Keep it to about large campfire level 'n we'll be ok.
You haven't updated from
You haven't updated from version 3 and yet you have to have the latest update a day ago?! I wonder how successful you'll be at mastering any form of SR, which requires hard work and patient practice. Any of the mega-clipjoints will have products soon enough.
Like many other long-term DNS users, I prefer to buy from long-term, certified Nuance dealers who use their profits to offer personal and community support, like Larry Allen (my long-term vendor) or Lunis Orcutt per this topic:
http://www.speechcomputing.com/node/2000
HTH,
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: You haven't
You haven't updated from version 3 and yet you have to have the latest update a day ago?! I wonder how successful you'll be at mastering any form of SR, which requires hard work and patient practice. Any of the mega-clipjoints will have products soon enough. ...
Actually I have been fairly successful with ViaVoice.
Things improved dramatically when I discovered the Telex M-560 microphone which seems to work better for speech with ViaVoice than anything currently available.
For what it is worth, what I look for in a speech microphone is a USB interface and the shortest possible length of (well-shielded) analog cable between the microphone element and the digitizing DSP. The biggest problem with mics (in my experience) is pickup of electrical noise. Unfortunately that very crucial dimension is usually well hidden in microphone advertising and bubble packaging so there is little alternative to trial and error. I can say that the Telex M-560 works very well indeed (I have four of them as they are getting rarer). There is probably an aftermarket in quality mics with upgraded shielding hand-installed. It is a great shame that there are no (?) ribbon mics with OEM DSP to USB. Aftermarket USB invariably involves connectors whose noise figure is unacceptable.
I was hoping that DNS 10 would be an improvement over ViaVoice. With all the hoopla over it I was a little surprised that none of the retail stores have it. Just because ViaVoice does what I need doesn't mean I don't want something better. I note that according to Nuance advertising DNS 9 is 99% accurate and DNS 10 is 20% more accurate than DNS 9. So it should be good if it is 119% accurate
HBlack wrote: Actually I
Actually I have been fairly successful with ViaVoice.
Oh, my mistake -- if you've been working with VV instead of DNS then you've got the basic gumption.
Things improved dramatically when I discovered the Telex M-560 microphone which seems to work better for speech with ViaVoice than anything currently available.
For what it is worth, what I look for in a speech microphone is a USB interface and the shortest possible length of (well-shielded) analog cable between the microphone element and the digitizing DSP. The biggest problem with mics (in my experience) is pickup of electrical noise. Unfortunately that very crucial dimension is usually well hidden in microphone advertising and bubble packaging so there is little alternative to trial and error. I can say that the Telex M-560 works very well indeed (I have four of them as they are getting rarer). There is probably an aftermarket in quality mics with upgraded shielding hand-installed. It is a great shame that there are no (?) ribbon mics with OEM DSP to USB. Aftermarket USB invariably involves connectors whose noise figure is unacceptable.
I'm not familiar with that mike. Marty Markoe sold me on the Sennheiser ME3 about three years ago and I've been very successful with it. None of the handful of mikes I've used for SR has ever had noise pickup problems, so maybe you've been unlucky in your selections. Or possibly you've been using mobo-down soundcards, which is a big source of noise. These days almost everyone seems to be using one of the USB sound devices, which virtually eliminate any chance of that kind of problem (although at least one well-known contributor swears by his SB Live card). Or (noting that you say you too use USB cards) more likely you have some extraordinary noise-generating gear in the vicinity of your PC.
I was hoping that DNS 10 would be an improvement over ViaVoice. With all the hoopla over it I was a little surprised that none of the retail stores have it. Just because ViaVoice does what I need doesn't mean I don't want something better. I note that according to Nuance advertising DNS 9 is 99% accurate and DNS 10 is 20% more accurate than DNS 9. So it should be good if it is 119% accurate
VV was quite good in its day, and some users have been extending its life by putting their other softwares into stasis, but I think most users will prefer to make selective upgrades that will eventually leave VV behind. [N.b., this is my cue for the benefit of Quentin Crivon, who always has something fervent to say about VV, despite its antiquity, without apparent use of its canned text capability.]
DNS 10 Preferred seems to be in the early stages of its roll-out -- it'll be here soon enough. Some folks like to be in the avant garde, but I prefer to wait a bit because there often are early edition SNAFU's that the early adapters will encounter and report. By the time I get around to loading a new version, most of the glitches and their work-arounds will have appeared -- that makes my PC time duller, but it does give me more time to dally in my preferred vices.
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: VV was
VV was quite good in its day, and some users have been extending its life by putting their other softwares into stasis,
Au contraire … it has never stopped me getting the latest software of anything I want or need, and I never have any problem using VV therewith
but I think most users will prefer to make selective upgrades that will eventually leave VV behind. [N.b., this is my cue for the benefit of Quentin Crivon, who always has something fervent to say about VV, despite its antiquity, without apparent use of its canned text capability.]
I don't know whether it's as a result of your use of DNS, or just the way you talk, that results in my having to try and interpret what you write – or perhaps it is the oceanic linguistic gulf between us – but perhaps you would explain what you mean by " canned text capability ". I will therefore reserve my right to reply pending my understanding, based on your subsequent explanation, of what you are trying to say.
By the time I get around to loading a new version, most of the glitches and their work-arounds will have appeared --
By which time the next edition will have been produced!
Quentin
Quote: Quote: VV was quite
VV was quite good in its day, and some users have been extending its life by putting their other softwares into stasis,
Au contraire … it has never stopped me getting the latest software of anything I want or need, and I never have any problem using VV therewith :)
Ah! So you've figured out how to use VV on Vista -- seems like a natural fit. Your fellow VVers await a post that explains all.
I don't know whether it's as a result of your use of DNS, or just the way you talk, that results in my having to try and interpret what you write – or perhaps it is the oceanic linguistic gulf between us – but perhaps you would explain what you mean by " canned text capability ". I will therefore reserve my right to reply pending my understanding, based on your subsequent explanation, of what you are trying to say.
Sorry, "canned text" is an Americanism for a text and graphics macro, in this case a piece of boilerplate text saved for repeated usage. To further explain, I was complementing your capability to wax enthusiastic about antique softwares without actually re-using the same text.
By the time I get around to loading a new version, most of the glitches and their work-arounds will have appeared --
By which time the next edition will have been produced!
Actually three months is the norm, whereas DNS, until the most recent iteration, was on an annual cycle. But I apply the same principle to all recurrent softwares, especially Windows -- where I've stretched the rule to something like: Don't upgrade to a new version until a newer version has been promulgated.
Bruce
BruceCyr wrote: Ah! So
Ah! So you've figured out how to use VV on Vista -- seems like a natural fit. Your fellow VVers await a post that explains all.
Who said anything about using Vista? See later comments
Sorry, "canned text" is an Americanism for a text and graphics macro, in this case a piece of boilerplate text saved for repeated usage. To further explain, I was complementing your capability to wax enthusiastic about antique softwares without actually re-using the same text.
Aha! What we on this side of the oceanic divide call templates! I've been using these for years, and could not live without them
My whole office is built around them. In Word, alone, we have stacks of them - all grouped into their own folders relevant to various legal subjects that we use. I often thought of making ViaVoice templates, but never bothered, because I have all of them in Word. And we find that Word 97 does absolutely everything we want without unnecessary frills that I would have to eliminate if I used any of the later versions
By the time I get around to loading a new version, most of the glitches and their work-arounds will have appeared --
By which time the next edition will have been produced!
Actually three months is the norm, whereas DNS, until the most recent iteration, was on an annual cycle. But I apply the same principle to all recurrent softwares, especially Windows -- where I've stretched the rule to something like: Don't upgrade to a new version until a newer version has been promulgated.
My very point
Quentin
Quote: DNS, until the most
DNS, until the most recent iteration, was on an annual cycle
Not particularly! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_NaturallySpeak...
Wikipedia chart is inaccurate
The Wikipedia chart shown for versions of Dragon NaturallySpeaking is incorrect. There are several versions left out, including DNS 3.52 and DNS 5.5. Most of the dates are correct, but the version numbers and the various flavors are not completely correct.
Chuck Runquist
Former Dragon NaturallySpeaking SDK & Senior Technical Solutions PM for DNS with Lernout & Hauspie
"We are all victims of mythology in one way or another. We are the inheritors, and many times the propagators, of a desire to believe what we want to believe, regardless of whether or not it is true." -- J.V. Stewart
Quote: Quote: Ah! So
Ah! So you've figured out how to use VV on Vista -- seems like a natural fit. Your fellow VVers await a post that explains all.
Who said anything about using Vista? See later comments :)
Actually, you did, at least implicitly, although I suppose your "out" is that you don't "want or need" Vista [Freaky! Its like we're a grumpy twosome who anticipate each other's next plaints] -- but that's solipsism: You modify your needs and wants to fit the argument of the day. Note, however, former VV users on this forum have cited that as the reason why they eventually, if reluctantly, switched from VV to DNS.
Actually three months is the norm, whereas DNS, until the most recent iteration, was on an annual cycle. But I apply the same principle to all recurrent softwares, especially Windows -- where I've stretched the rule to something like: Don't upgrade to a new version until a newer version has been promulgated.
My very point
Quentin
Well, excuse my rudeness in pointing out that the analogy fails in the case where no upgrade will ever occur. OTOH, there is the eternal image of Quixote's unfulfillable quest -- Oh! The beauteous nobility of it all!
BTW, its a pleasure to indulge a civil quarrel with an old friend
Bruce
HBlack wrote: I note that
I note that according to Nuance advertising DNS 9 is 99% accurate and DNS 10 is 20% more accurate than DNS 9. So it should be good if it is 119% accurate
At least learn your math...